In the 80's and early 90's underground music culture was pretty hard to access but that was part of what made it feel so exciting when you did make connections and discover new scenes. I felt isolated as a girl playing music in a male-dominated counter-culture so in 1989 I started a fanzine called Jigsaw as a way to meet other girls who were interested in changing things. By the second issue (1990) I was meeting other girls in the northwest who wanted to collaborate. By the third issue (early ’91)  Bikini Kill had started - partially as a result of the conversations happening in and around Jigsaw - and by the fourth issue (summer ’91) we were trying to take it a step further and get girls to start bands en masse. At first we called this "Revolution Girl Style Now”. That questioning and wanting to change things ended up evolving into "riot grrrl”. The whole thing came out of underground fanzines. Bikini Kill made two fanzines around this time as well and were touring on ourself-released demo tape, “Revolution Girl Style Now.” By the fifth issue of Jigsaw (late ’92) “grunge” had become popular music and, partially as a result, "riot grrl" was being covered in the mainstream press. At that point, I pretty much stopped making fanzines because the question of audience became really confusing.  I started to feel vulnerable and overwhelmed by not being able to control the context or know how to talk to "the general public" or whatever. Like, who was I writing for and who had access to my ideas?  I just really sort of freaked out. That freak-out-ness became a part of how cathartic it was to be in Bikini Kill - it just all came out in our songs, especially live.

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I can imagine that if all this was happening today that I might never have made a fanzine at all. I know we would have been horrified if all those shows had been posted to youtube and shared instantly. Today I wish more of our shows had been documented but having to watch them immediately - or having other people see them instantly - would have been really intimidating. Instead of experiencing a moment in a room you'd always be thinking about an anonymous viewer outside of your control. For young women experimenting with gender and sexuality as part of their performance strategy that just sounds sort of creepy and awful. It probably would have changed our presentation. Is there a term for the phenomenon of thinking about an outside viewer in another time and place and how that awareness changes the way you act in the moment? In terms of performance it could be called “the internet gaze” or “the outside audience factor”… there’s probably already a term people are using that I’m not aware of but if so I would like to know.

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Personally I had a pretty troubled relationship with riot grrl after it started. This is a long story and I have talked about it here and there but I actually felt very critical about and alienated by some of what was passing for feminism at the time. Unfortunately Bikini Kill and the riot grrls were experiencing so much hatred and sexism and violence as a result of questioning the status quo that there was really no room to be critical or have these conversations at the time. For example, I feel very protective of Kathleen and Allison. These women put themselves on the line for other women and spoke out against sexism publicly and they took a lot of shit for it. As front people they had to deal with confrontation and violence that I didn’t have to deal with from behind a drum set or type writer but at the same time there are things that were happening within our scene that I didn’t agree with at all. Being a member of Bikini Kill and having our whole band defined by the public perception of what it meant to be a riot grrl was pretty difficult for all of us and something we really struggled with as a band. It was frustrating not to be able to be critical as a feminist or have this conversations publicly. I still feel like this is a hard subject to talk about because there is still a backlash against feminists and riot grrrl. I also think the myth and influence of the riot grrrl movement might be more exciting and interesting and cool than what actually happened - but really I'm not sure what actually happened and I'm not sure if anyone could really tell you!

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Punk has intersected with feminism - or feminisms if you will - at various points since the beginning and we didn't necessarily know this when Bikini Kill started. Punk and feminism still intersect all the time - but the riot grrl era - let's say 1991-6 - was a time period when that was covered by the mainstream - partially because of what happened with grunge - and partially because of things like Sassy magazine or whatever - so there was this dominant narrative that feminism and punk had never happened before and that punk up to that point was totally sexist. Well obviously, the Slits and the Raincoats and Kleenex had already happened in the UK and Polly Styrene & Lora Logic were in X Ray Spex - Alice Bag and Exene were doing their thing in LA and Lydia Lunch and Kim Gordon were happening in NYC etc etc etc. These women weren't aligning themselves with the word feminism all the time or even at all - but what those women were doing was arguably feminist in terms of rock-n-roll and youth culture. Maybe what we were trying to do was a little bit different - because we were telling ALL GIRLS to START BANDS. We saw music as a way for girls to create our own meaning via culture - and since culture basically is language - this would change the world. In a very simple sense we thought that by actively participating in cultural production - making a fanzine - starting a group - girls would change what it meant to be a girl - from passive, weak, consumer, object - to active, strong, producer, subject - if that makes sense - and that the more girls did this, the more democratic gender constructions would become as a result.

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Today the context has changed but feminism and punk still intersect with bands like Perfect Pussy and Downtown Boys and PRIESTS and VEXX and G.L.O.S.S. (Girls Living Outside Society’s Shit) etc etc

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And then in the mainstream today pop stars are calling themselves feminist. I mean, I think Madonna was a feminist in the 80's and a really important catalyst for something like riot grrl to happen - so this has been happening for a long time - right? I don't really follow pop culture too closely myself but I love Beyonce and MIA.

 3. What gets you excited about where we are right now in music/activism/feminism? What bums you out?

I live in Olympia, which is a small city with a lot of bands living here so that is pretty much my scene - there is a small public (affordable) liberal arts college here so there's a lot of kids coming and going and a lot of the shows are in basements or non-traditional settings rather than clubs. Most of the shows that are well attended are either free or really cheap and a lot of the bands are pretty influenced by the aesthetics of the 80's and 90's - underground and pop - it's pretty weird to have grown up during the hardcore era and then to be in your 40s and see that style of hardcore come back and be taken over by feminists - for example Hysterics or In School. I really get bummed when I go to a show in 2015 and no women are on the bill. I also get bummed when I hear young people say they don't take being in a band seriously. I guess I just don't get that - what could be more important than being in a band - if - by being in a band - you are able to change culture - in other words - create new ways of perceiving and being in the world - that's pretty much what I think being in a band is all about - then I don't really think there is more important work. I guess I get bummed when it seems like people are using music to be self-indulgent and retro rather than to challenge or change society. Not that I think that every song needs to be a protest song but I do think aesthetics are political and you need to look at the moment you are creating in and examine what you are referencing. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think it's time to bury the chorus pedal. Like, why is that a good thing to bring back? It's meaningless and depressing as an aesthetic - to me at least - but also - just watch a video of the Bad Brains from the early days- that is where will you see an example of music as a pure transformational, cultural force. Those are the kind of moments I get excited about but that's not gonna be something you experience every day. Go see Downtown Boys or VEXX if you wanna get witness some of that energy in 2015 because those guys are for real.

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